Town Hall 3/4/04
Forum Link: Original Post Town Hall with Cory 03/04/04 Haney Linden: First question - James Miller: Question: When do you think we'll have the next improvement to SL's graphics? Cory Linden: to clarify folks, IM to haney please Cory Linden: James, that's a great question . . . we're going to be seeing a lot of fixes in 1.3 plus April and May as ATI releases driver fixes Cory Linden: The mac will have major fixes for 1.3 as well Cory Linden: major new rendering features won't be for a while tho Haney Linden: Kex Godel: Q: What will be the limits on llGetNextEmail() for mail queue depth? Will the email address be related to the object's UUID? Cory Linden: The mail queue depth is TBD at this point, but will be pretty deep. The email address will use the UUID, yes Haney Linden: Jsecure Hanks: What is the release date for 1.3 / 1.3 preview? Cory Linden: preview will be next week, 1.3 is 29 March Haney Linden: Axael Tabla: Generally what is next for SL? Cory Linden: lol . . . that's a pretty broad question! Axael Tabla: so that we can get a broad answer :) Cory Linden: let's see, 1.3 is focused on features in world like new find features, top picks, snapshots with places Cory Linden: plus you can email snapshots to your friends as postcards Cory Linden: you will be able to reply via email to IM that has been forwards to email (so you can reply from work :-)!) Haney Linden: Ezhar Fairlight: Suggestion: Come up with a list of features that you consider about equally easy to implement, then put them to the vote (so you don't miss things like the llSetTopShear etc.) Cory Linden: for scripts, email to scripts is working again plus xml-rpc Cory Linden: ezhar, we do review the forums and ask people about features all the time, plus the overall suggestions are more varied than any initial list that I would make Haney Linden: catnip Foo: I'm looking for an update on XML RPC Cory Linden: catnip: it will be in 1.3, although there is a chance that some of the infrastructure won't be done until a week or so after 1.3 deploys Haney Linden: Pat Murphy: Question 1: When we're talking about XML-RPC what exactly does that entail? Are we talking about making function calls to Webservices on the WWW? and if so what standard? SOAP? and will I have to parse any XML? ProximO Fate: is there any chance in any update soon where there will be easier to use scripting? Cory Linden: Pat #1: xml-rpc is a method of sending a formatted packet of data (formatted in XML) and then getting a reply. The format will be an integer plus a string. The script will receive the data as a string and an integer, not as XML. Haney Linden: Tiger Crossing: Q: Any chance for a workable fix the the llRezObject problems? Cory Linden: more info on XML-RPC will be forthcoming in the LSL docs Cory Linden: Tiger: assuming that you are talking about the temp-on-rez issues, those are fixed for 1.3 Haney Linden: Jopsy Pendragon: Will we get a FIND (by name) feature for our personal inventories? (Sorry if this was answered elsewhere) Tiger Crossing: No... not quite... I'll enter another question into the queue with more deatils. Cory Linden: Jopsy: that's a great idea, but no, not in 1.3 Haney Linden: Chromal Brodsky: Cory, what sort of changes can we expect in the way world-permissions work in the future? Is this even a TODO? Cory Linden: Chromal: 1.3 permission fixes are mostly bug fixes. There will be major improvements to the permissions system in future releases as we continue to work with the creative commons folks. Haney Linden: Catherine Omega: I've been asking about the feasibility of linking solid and phantom objects together, then having only the solid objects affect the 31-prim limit on physical objects. Obviously, the biggest application would be in high-prim vehicles. Haney Linden: Catherine Omega: Andrew has stated that your solution to the high-prim vehicle problem will be Havok 2. However, there are several things I'd like to do with this that actually require phantom and solid objects to be linked together. Haney Linden: Catherine Omega: In my case, I'm not actually interested in high-prim vehicles at all, but I'd like to have a train on (in) a track. Catherine Omega: I know other people have built things like fountains or furniture that would be greatly helped by making Haney Linden: Catherine Omega: My question is this: is there a technological reason why it's difficult to implement this, or have I been offering the wrong examples of WHY it would be useful? Catherine Omega: (Yes, that's all one question... *sigh*) Cory Linden: and hides from Catherine Cory Linden: ok . . . let's see Cory Linden: yes, the current implementation of Havok makes linking phantom and non-phantom difficult at best Cory Linden: we know why it would be useful and want to implement it, but it will have to wait for H2 Haney Linden: WinterBear Westerburg: Q: when will we have access to the underlying gestrues and movements that make up the animation.? Cory Linden: WBW: we're planning on making major improvements to the animation system for 1.4 Cory Linden: including those features and others Haney Linden: Michael Small: Will the UI change much? Will it be skinnable, and if not, is there a timeframe on that feature? Cory Linden: Michael: not for 1.3, but making the UI completely XML based (as opposed to the current 34% XML based) is on the list, probably for 1.5 Haney Linden: Ironchef Cook: Question: Any chance of having a chat channel that only the owner can hear with no delays? It would help with script debugging, etc. Cory Linden: Ironchef: that's an interesting idea, related to "no delay on IM to owner", that the current LSL sleep implementation makes difficult, but it is on my list to look at before 1.3 Haney Linden: Oboe Blanc: How much of the Sim Crossing problem will be fixed in 1.3 .... It is getting crowded at Altitude along the sim borders. Cory Linden: Oboe: we have a pile of border bugs that are being looked at for 1.3 and we hope to have most of them smashed by then. Haney Linden: id like to know why vector integer and such stuff are converted into string when they are put into list arrays, and when this problem will be solved James Miller: would you, haney? :P Cory Linden: Not sure who asked that, but you can put all data types into lists w/o converting them to strings Haney Linden: Tiger Crossing: llRezObject of a linked set uses an average of all prims' center as the point it positions. This is not a center we can caluculate, so using llRezObject is VERY difficult for linked objects. Can we get a function that returns this funky c Cory Linden: you can also convert them to strings if you want to Cory Linden: Tiger: got it, and I looked up the bug between questions. On the list for 1.3. Agree that that is a bad problem. Tiger Crossing: ...funcky center point, perhaps llGetAverageCenter()? Haney Linden: catnip Foo: another question.. any chance for an "offline" mode so I can do some modelling faster? Cory Linden: catnip: no Haney Linden: Oz Spade: Q: Are improvements to things like Inventory (multiple file drag, Find, jump by keypress) or expansions on things like Calling Cards in the works or being considered? Cory Linden: Oz: inventory improvements are going onto the 1.5 schedule Haney Linden: Axael Tabla: Axael Tabla: Can you add a button to the script window like "What do you want the object to do" and this button generates the appropriate script? Cory Linden: and yes many of those are being talked about Cory Linden: Axael: no Cory Linden: well, maybe, but only offline Cory Linden: jk Haney Linden: Jsecure Hanks: Will the xml-rpc delay be as long as the email delay, or shorter/longer? Cory Linden: we've actually talked about wizards and such for scripts, but don't have the manpower to work on it, sadly Cory Linden: Jsecure: the xml-rpc sleeps will probably be on the order of a second or two at first while we ring out the problems in the system, the latency will prolly be around 2 seconds at first Haney Linden: Kex Godel: Q: Have there been any considerations for silently issuing script commands, ie chat text starting with "/" will be sent to channel 1 (for example)? Cory Linden: Kex: yes, we do keep talking about that and I'll see if it's on anybody's list Haney Linden: Kex Godel: Q: It seems that llResetScript() doesn't work if the script has crashed (eliminating the possibility of having a watchdog script). Is this working as designed or a bug? Christopher Omega: Cory, I think what kex means is the limitation in the functionality of llResetOtherScript Kex Godel: correct Cory Linden: Kex: oh, that sounds like a bug . . . have you reported it? Haney Linden: Tiger Crossing: llRezObject of a linked set uses an average of all prims' center as the point it positions. This is not a center we can caluculate, so using llRezObject is VERY difficult for linked objects. Can we get a function that returns this funky c Haney Linden: funky center point? Tiger Crossing: Anything scheduled for additional control of prim properties (twist, cut, top size, etc) via scripts for 1.3? Kex Godel: not yet, I wasn't sure if it was impossible or not Tiger Crossing: Jsut the second one there... :) Cory Linden: kex: please enter it as a bug and it'll go onto the list Cory Linden: Tiger: yes Haney Linden: Michael Small: Will there be any feature enhancments to the scripted editor, ie. find and replace, automatic insertion of event arguments, etc.. - and if not, are these in the pipeline? Cory Linden: michael: not in 1.3 but it has been talked about Haney Linden: Oboe Blanc: Could you implement a "save as" for filenaming on note cards ? Cory Linden: not sure what you mean, Oboe Haney Linden: Sion Zaius: and can you please link 3 more sanboxes to the existing one? its being used very much recently Sion Zaius: a huge sanbox would be amazing Cory Linden: Sion: tell Ryan Linden :-) Haney Linden: cua Curie: Is there any chance a mechinism for peer to peer transfer through SL could be implemented? such as drop a zip file on an avatar for direct send. Possibly also alowing direct connections for things such as voice communication? Cory Linden: michael: not in 1.3 but it has been talked about Cory Linden: cua: no Haney Linden: Selador Cellardoor: When is the bug which makes objects below 7m go offworld going to be fixed? Cory Linden: although voice is still soemthing that we're looking at Cory Linden: Selador: we'll try to get to that for 1.3 Haney Linden: Christina LaFollette: what is the max elevation for a rez'd object using llRezObject Cory Linden: Christina: I'm actually not sure, although I'm sure that someone has experimented? James? Tiger Crossing: 728 or so, I think... Kex Godel: 768 Christina LaFollette: what if its linked thou Christopher Omega: Heh, I think its 512 meters, either that or 76.. yeah Haney Linden: Christopher Omega: Question: Will we be seeing any improvements with the LSL event queueing system? Currently, in projects requiring much talk between scripts, events start to fire dramatically slower. Cory Linden: Chris: not sure what would be causing that problem, although most "talk" between scripts have sleeps, so that will slow the scripts down a lot Haney Linden: ProximO Fate: will there be anything to help newbie's or just people trying to learn more about scripting any easier? Cory Linden: ProximO: the best resource for LSL help is other users and the various intro to scripting events Cory Linden: and the forums Haney Linden: James Miller: Question: What are your plans for voice chat? Like, how will it be implemented, when, etc. Ezhar Fairlight: and the LSL wiki! (http://www.badgeometry.com/wiki/ ) James Miller: *if* it's being implemented, that is ;) Cory Linden: James: we will not implement voice chat until we can mask voices in a way that doesn't sounds like poop Cory Linden: we are working with some smart folks on that problem and will hopefully have progress sometime later this year James Miller: Oh, wow, that's interesting....why? James Miller: You really feel there is a need for us to mask our voices? Haney Linden: followup to earlier Q - J Christopher Omega: Question: Will we be seeing any improvements with the LSL event queueing system? Currently, in projects requiring much talk between scripts, events start to fire dramatically slower. Christopher Omega: Even li Haney Linden: Christopher Omega: Even link messages? Cory Linden: Chris: the most common boo-boo in LSL processing is to send a billion link messages when 1 will do. This results in a lot of load on the script and will slow things down. Haney Linden: Jade Lily: I am learning what it means to live next door to a war zone. Is there anything you can do to control the bullets flying out of there? I can delete them from my land, but not my neighbors'. And some of them make noise. Cory Linden: james: http://www.gamegirladvance.com/archives/2003/07/28/not_yet_you_fools.html Cory Linden: Jade: well, you have options about where you live, and much of the cleanup junk code will be improved in 1.3 Haney Linden: Tabby Zidane: Q: Are Prices for land going to go down? And are there going to be more Sims added? Cory Linden: Tabby: we are continuing to add sims. It's up to our users whether land prices drop or not. Haney Linden: Odys Bukowski: I have a question. This is something I talked about with Ben Linden a coupld of days ago. Will you implement more bandwidth control for clients, seeing a lot of European users dont have flatrate internet? Cory Linden: Odys: what do you mean by "more"? Under Edit->Preferences->Network you can control your usage a fair amount. Haney Linden: Shorahmin Femto: will anything be done about the black market in SL$? Cory Linden: Shorahmin: what black market? Cory Linden: sorry, what do you mean by "black market"? Ezhar Fairlight: GOM? :) James Miller: Yes, I think he/she is referrering to GOM and IGE. Cory Linden: users are free to exchange L$ however they would like to Odys Bukowski: well it still sends out a fair amount of data to me. enough for me to get scared of my last internet bill. i was hoping at some options to lower it a bit more. for instance, if you plan to be in one area a lot, maybe streaming could be reduced? Cory Linden: OK, hold on a bit while I answer Odys first, then Shorahmin Cory Linden: Odys: we drop streaming to the minimum that we can all the time -- since our bandwidth cost isn't flat rate either :-) -- but we can only drop so far and still have you experience the world Shorahmin Femto: folks with the RL resources can pervert the SL environmet Odys Bukowski: yeah thats true i guess Odys Bukowski: ok thanks Cory Linden: Shorahmin: neither GOM nor IGE are "balck market". They are 3rd parties that, in GOMs case fascilitate exchanges between users (so when you pay US$ it goes to another user) or sells L$ to you (with IGE it goes to IGE, although they've been buying Cory Linden: users as well) Cory Linden: users are also free to exchange L$ between each other Haney Linden: cua Curie: If we can reply to IMs sent via the email->IM gateway, will we be able to originate inbound emails? Say, Cienna.Rand@secondlife.com Haney Linden: cua Curie: in reference to the page you just linked to james regarding vouice chat, does Linden Lab feel that second life should be more an immersive game the a communications tool? cua Curie: then a communications tool* Cory Linden: cua: no, because we don't want SPAM coming into SL, so you'll only be able to respond to valid emails that came out of the system Cory Linden: cua: I'm not completely endorsing Richard's position, but I think that he has a point about the dissonance of hearing a male voice come from female avs, especially if the user doesn't want to give up his or her identity Haney Linden: Sion Zaius: will you ever implement functions like llSetLocalRot and llSetLocalPosition to links objects Cory Linden: Sion: yes, but true hierarchical stuff will wait for Havok 2 Haney Linden: Oboe Blanc: When you open a note Card ... ( or Snapshot ) , you can not rename the file from the open note ... The only option is the "Save" button, you loose the original file on save, or end up with different files having the same name. A "save as" is Haney Linden: needed Ezhar Fairlight: llSetPos *IS* local for link childs, and theres a working SetLocalRot in the forum/wiki Cory Linden: Oboe: oh, I see, could you enter it as a bug, please? Plus, you can always rename it in your inventory Haney Linden: Ironchef Cook: Question: Will there be more keys available to control besides wasd and up/down? Also, right-button/middle-button support? Ironchef Cook: please ? it's a dev question :) Cory Linden: Ironchef: you mean for scripts? Not anytime soon, although we have been talking about it. Haney Linden: Michael Small: Any chance of arrays being implemented with direct indexing, rather than the llList2String, etc.. methods? Cory Linden: Michael: not soon, although LSL will be reviewed in a big way for 1.5 Haney Linden: Catherine Omega: Are there any plans to extend the number of primitives we have to choose from in the hopes of reducing the number of prims needed to make common shapes? Catherine Omega: And if not, is it because, as a few of us have assumed, the prim ty Haney Linden: he prim type is represented by a single-digit integer? :) Cory Linden: Catherine: we have more prim types available but haven't spent a lot of time thinking about additional ones. Haney Linden: Tiger Crossing: Question: "hierarchical stuff will wait for Havok 2"... Does this mean nested links? And if so, will subtractive geometry be in our future then? Cory Linden: But yes, it is represented in only a few bits for transmission. Cory Linden: Tiger: sometime after Havok 2 goes in we want to change linking to be heirerarchy, yes, but it is a long way away Cory Linden: because it will be a lot of work Haney Linden: Oz Spade: Is "ghosting" fixed in 1.3 or is that still projected to be fixed in a later version? Cory Linden: Oz: we have made many changes to the interest list code, so we should have fewer ghost type bugs Haney Linden: Kex Godel: Q: Just out of curiosity, what is the event queue depth in LSL (it's not in the docs)? Cory Linden: 64 Haney Linden: Kex Godel: Q: At the last meeting you said you'd look into seeing if it's even possible to increase script memory size without a lot of trouble. Have you had time to look into this and make any conclusions yet? Cory Linden: Kex: I've looked into it and it is too much work to try and do for 1.3, however I have gone trhough and removed most of the symbols which means that using long variable names no long hurts you. Haney Linden: Kex Godel: Q: Is llWriteNotecardLine() being considered perhaps by a "1.5" timeframe? or is it not even in the schedule? Cory Linden: Kex: it's not even on the schedule for right now. There are some technical reasons why writing to notecards is extremely complicated. Haney Linden: Michael Small: In regards to Oz Spades question, do you have a good handle on why ghosting occurs, or is it as big a problem for you guys as it is for us? Its fairly common. Cory Linden: Michael: as we find reasons for it we stomp them. However, the SL display and rendering code is quite complicated and when combined with networking issues there are just a lot of corner cases. Cory Linden: But yes, we are aware of it and want to keep stomping them. Haney Linden: Michael Small: Any chance of arrays being implemented with direct indexing, rather than the llList2String, etc.. methods? Cory Linden: Michael: still no :-) Cory Linden: that's it? Cory Linden: you're all out of questions? Haney Linden: Michael Small: Will there be any feature enhancments to the scripted editor, ie. find and replace, automatic insertion of event arguments, etc.. - and if not, are these in the pipeline? Cory Linden: there we go . . . :-) Cory Linden: Michael: being talked about but not soon Haney Linden: Sion Zaius: will the maximum speed of physical objects increase? Sion Zaius: let me guess... havok 2? Cory Linden: Sion: yup Cory Linden: Havok 2 => more stability => higher speeds Haney Linden: Selador Cellardoor: I'm about to buy a 5950 card. The problem is that there is no water ripple. Is this a problem with the FX cards, or is it something that could be fixed in the SL engine? If so, are there any plans to fix it? Cory Linden: Selador: yes, it is a problem with the FX cards and we are working with NVidia to figure out why. (Doesn't that make all of the ATI owners happy to hear?) Haney Linden: Christopher Omega: Question: How is the event queue affected during llSleep() and the function delays (like llEmail's delay)? Cory Linden: Chirstopher: it stalls until the sleep completes Haney Linden: Jordan Cotton: Any thought of a Hashtable type? Christopher Omega: No events are added during the sleep? Christopher Omega: Er, sorry :-) Cory Linden: Chris: while sleeping the script is OFF Cory Linden: Jordan: no, although better ways of indexing lists is an interesting idea Haney Linden: Corvidae Peregrine: With regards to writing to notecards (and the lack, thereof), is there any sort of semi-permanent, object-local storage in the works? Cory Linden: Corvidae: other than script RAM? No, although we are making more ways to move your data into and out of the world. Cory Linden: Oh, lsl is also picking up llMD5String as well (for those worrying about security) Haney Linden: Catherine Omega: Philip has stated that he's not a big fan of the avatar-as-prim type idea. However, assuming you guys were interested in implementing it -- letting us use the avatar model as a prim -- would there be any technical issues preventing it? Cory Linden: Chatherine: that is being talked about in the 1.5 timeframe as part of a larger discussion around NPCs &c Haney Linden: Catherine Omega: There was talk of an external IM client coming in 1.2. Whatever happened to that idea? It was good. :) Cory Linden: Catherine: as I remember, I was seriously flamed for that proposal . . . Cory Linden: however, xml-rpc would let you approximate one yourself Haney Linden: Chromal Brodsky: Any possibility of adding the facility for LSL library "#includes" in scripts? Cory Linden: Chromal: we keep talking about that and we have some ideas but it isn't in yet Haney Linden: Chromal Brodsky: When creating physical objects, their density (perhaps other properties?) are determined by the 'material' selection box. Any chance of giving us access to the raw parameter(s) that determin an object's physical behavior? Cory Linden: Chromal: that would work better with . . . Cory Linden: wait for it . . . Cory Linden: all together . . . Tiger Crossing: H2 Cory Linden: Havok 2 Alexander Blanc: Havok 2. Chromal Brodsky: Haha! :-) Christopher Omega: Havok2! :-P Haney Linden: Tiger Crossing: What sort of a set-up in the outside world will we need to make use of the new XML-RPC interface into/out of SL? Web server and CGIs? Something else? Jsecure Hanks: HAVOK ii Oz Spade: Havock 2 :) I like to be differnt. catnip Foo: php would work as well Cory Linden: We will do some documentation on XML-RPC, but basically you'll have a couple of options . .. either use an xml-rpc client and send requests in and get replies (there are clients for every OS) or Cory Linden: run an xml-rpc server and communicate bi-directionally with the script or . . . Cory Linden: have two scripts that are both using xml-rpc talk to each other Haney Linden: catnip Foo: can you let me turn off trees, grass, fog, HW lighting, all the stuff in the debug menu, permanently, or as a preference? I have to reset those every time I load up. Cory Linden: catnip . . . hmm that's an interesting thought . . . please enter it as a bug Haney Linden: Oz Spade: Q: Two feature questions, Clickable Hypertext Links in chat history, and Snapshot approval window, possibilities? catnip Foo: /entering bug Cory Linden: Oz: ok, snapshots and snapshot->notecard use a new UI element that lets you review before paying Cory Linden: hypertext to what exactly? names to profile? Jarod Godel: the web Oz Spade: No, like when I type www.secondlife.com, people could click it in chathistory. Cory Linden: sorry, snapshot->postcard I meant Cory Linden: hmmm . . .that's an interesting idea . .. maybe Haney Linden: Ezhar Fairlight: So no arrays, but what about a function to replace a list item (without going through the slow deleting/inserting)? Cory Linden: Ezhar: that's a good idea Haney Linden: Jsecure Hanks: Perhaps obvious question, if two prims use xml-rpc to contact each other will that be instant or delayed with a standard delay? Cory Linden: Jsecure: delayed Haney Linden: Ezhar Fairlight: Will the new terraforming tools have better scripting functions associated? Will we be able to use scripted terraforming at the real land resolution? Maybe even let us set the height values directly? Cory Linden: Ezhar: the script terraforming will lag behind the new tools by a release probably Haney Linden: Kex Godel: Q: Are there any plans to detect the clicked-upon region on the surface of a prim, so that one prim may be an entire "control panel" instead of separate prims for each button? Cory Linden: kex: we keep talking about that and now that we have fast picking it is a possiblity Haney Linden: Tiger Crossing: Could we get a debug command that will re-sync the sun to what everyone else see (if you've moved it) without having to re-log? Jarod Godel: /slog read slog Cory Linden: Tiger: if you turn off mouse moves sun the sun will move back to the correct spot over time Haney Linden: Christopher Omega: Any info on how Havok2 will improve the joint system? Cory Linden: Chris: not yet, but a bunch of joint bugs are fixed for 1.3 Haney Linden: Christopher Omega: Question: Will we get a relog button? :-D Cory Linden: ok, last question or two Haney Linden: Kex Godel: Q: Are there any plans in the works to allow us to create "temporary" textures (perhaps that are non-transferrable and are autodeleted after a day from our inventory)? They could be useful for tweaking looks on things we build (especially clo Haney Linden: (especially clothing). Cory Linden: Kex: there is a general discussion (in the 1.5 timeframe) around assets that time out, would make rentals easier, &c &c Haney Linden: Trimming Hedges: followup suggestion to the list idea: a method of directly accessing a list item (foo.0, foo.1, for instance) would be great, particularly if we could make assignments to it that way Haney Linden: Ok, thats it for today Cory Linden: Trimming: that would be easy if the idiot who wrote LSL2 had gone with his initial instinct for run-time typing. Instead he didn't, so doing that isn't really doable. Haney Linden: Sorry if we werent able to to get to all your questions Haney Linden: Thank you all for coming - a most polite crowd! Cory Linden: and yes, I would be that idiot (before you think that I'm slagging one of my developers) Cory Linden: Thank you all for your great questions Cory Linden: ok, off to change diapers . . . see you on the forums :-) Category:Town Hall Logs